Posts by Frazzled UBM

7

Where can I get Steven Hassan's book?

by UBM101 in

jw
friends

can't find the paperback version of "releasing the bonds", tried to order freedom of mind from amazon but kept on encountering problem with address (i guess they don't deliver to asia??).

been looking in montreal the whole day but to no avail yesterday.

i'll be going back to asia in a few days :(.

Frazzled UBM

UBM 101 - Do you have or can you get a cheap Kindle? You can get it as a download off Amazon for your Kindle. When you are searching for it in amazon you need to enter the full title to get a hit. The full title is Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs. I just got it and it is very interesting and helpful although I suspect it is not a magic ticket to immediately releasing your spouse from captivity. As a fellow UBM I would be interested in your story. BTW - whereabouts in Asia are you? Frazzled

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

Frazzled UBM

This question of whether absent shunning there would be no resentment is an interesting one. Not having experienced shunning myself I cannot speak from personal expereince. I can certainly see how shunning ups the ante in terms of resentment because it destroys relationships and I suspect must create a sense of wariness about new relationships - 'I thought these people were my friends but they have abandoned me because I disagree witht their beliefs so can I trust anyone who purports to be my friend.'

Still I think shunning is one weapon in the armoury of emotional, social and psychological control the organisation and while it one of the most powerful, I suspect the use of fear generally may be even more powerful and almost as damaging. So even in the absence of shunning I still think there would be resentful about how fear was use to implant delusional beliefs which impacted negatively on XJWs lives and ability to reach their potential and so discovery of TTATT must create a sense of betrayal of trust.

I have some sympathy for the view that we should not be too harsh on 1009. He has challenged our thinking and caused us to articulate the reasons for it, which I think is a good thing. Also hopefully he has taken note of our answers and has a better appreciation of a different point of view than his own. If as many suspect he is still caught in WBTS thinking hopefully listening to the views expressed may cause him to reflect on that. But I do not think we should attack what he says by casting aspersions of his motives - this is a tactic employed by the WBTS and it is an odious tactic because it is a frontal attack on the ability to reason.

8

UK Courts protect abused children from 'they led me on' defense

by besty in

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10228621/lawyer-who-called-13-year-old-predatory-is-barred-from-sex-offence-cases.html.

from memory (help pls) when jehovahs witness elders report child abuse judicial comittee outcomes to the watchtower they have remit to comment on whether the child victim played some part in the offence.. this despicable question seeks to make the victim a mitigating factor in the sin crime.

well as of today the uk judicial system has laid down a marker that this 'defence' is inappropriate and will not fly.. what the defence said:.

Frazzled UBM

Horrifying - it goes a long way to explaining why this has been such a big problem for such a long time in he oganisation - why would any victim come forward if they know they will themselves become the accused? The same attitude applies to rape victims generally - there was a thread about that last week.

12

the god of bible is a god of love?

by trackregister99 in

i readthe bibleentirely and i study in the past with jw, but i have many questions and doubts about god.

(sorry for my english).

is god a god of love?

Frazzled UBM

God, by whatever name you call him, in the Bible has a split personality, one book (the old testament) jealous, angry, spiteful and homocidal and then in the New Testament when jesus pops up all kindness and compassion. Christian sects therefore can chose which God to empahsize and we know which way the WBTS went cos I think they figured fear is the best motivator. Islam also has humanist and jihadist (aggresive/intolerant)strains and it depends on which bit is emphasized as to how believers behave.

183

Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society

by AndersonsInfo in

http://gilmermirror.com/bookmark/23272594/article-extreme%20shunning#.ufwjurllscm.facebook.

extreme shunningthe gilmer mirror.

its time to outlaw extreme shunning in modern society by: richard e. kelly .

Frazzled UBM

Count the rationalisations of Prime as listed by besty1,2,3,4,5,6,7. If there was an Olympics for rationalisations dubs like Prime would sweep the medal tally.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

Frazzled UBM

confusedandalone - I really connected with that story about you and your wife - the fact that after 10 years of marriage having to worry about whether your wife's first loyalty would be to a bunch of old farts in Bethel or you speaks volumes. I know that fear about lack of loyalty - your wife's response though gives me hope. cheers

The question of whether the leadership know that are using psychological control techniques is an interesting one - these techniques have been honed by the organization over many years so the existing leadership is only perpetuating practices that are deeply embedded and were themselves subject to those techniques BUT sa they are the leaders and they get considerable benefits from the positions they hold I beleive they have a responsiblity to examine the practices of the organisation and their consciences and decide whether those practices are ethical but most of them are incapable of doing so (after all one of the main criteria for progression in the organisation is conformity to organisational dogma) and probably have some excellent rationalizations for not doing so.

183

Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society

by AndersonsInfo in

http://gilmermirror.com/bookmark/23272594/article-extreme%20shunning#.ufwjurllscm.facebook.

extreme shunningthe gilmer mirror.

its time to outlaw extreme shunning in modern society by: richard e. kelly .

Frazzled UBM

Prime - are you serious? 'no one honestly believes that disfellowshipping is damaging' ...maybe not if you have already decided The Truth is not that and you are better off without close family contact and fake friends (but even then I find it hard to believe some damage is not caused) but if you continue to believe the psychological impact is horrendous as you are expecting that Armageddon will happen any day and you will be wiped out in it and then there is the shame...I saw how my wife was completely unaffected for the five years she was df'd (NOT) such that she couldn't run back fast enough once she could show repentence and so ended up even tighter in the bosom of the Borg...no not in the least bit damaging...

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

Frazzled UBM

I wondered how the organization found out about that - 1009 did you confess? If all elders came clean on that score I bet none of them would have any privileges.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

Frazzled UBM

1009 - you seem to be suggesting that if it was a cancer it would be benign and not malignant but I have seen the damage it has done to my wife's family - one sister committed suicide after being put in an impossible position by heavy-handed idiot elders; her gay brotehr has had to deny who he is to his family; and her df'd sister is depressed and withdrawn - this is the damage those bastards in Bethel cause but you must have witnessed similar! If your view is that we need to rise above our anger and love all no matter their faults - that is admirably Christian and forgiving of you and I think applies to Witnesses generally but not the people at the top of the organization - they need to be held to account for the damage they have caused.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

Frazzled UBM

While 'touched a nerve' is the correct English translation I think in this case it would be 'applied a blow-torch to an open wound!' 1009 - I think the reason for the skepticism about your bona fides is your lack of a sense of betrayal that what you were taught your whole life was the Truth were lies and fabrications; the people you trusted as being inspired by God turned out to be a bunch of deceitful old mostly white guys; and that the friends you thought you had were fake friends. From my reading of this website (I was not a JW so have not experienced it but certainly understand it and see it as a very natural human response) that seems to be the natural reaction to learning TTATT and so your approach seems to suggest that you are not convinced of TTATT. In any case VENTING is one of the best, if not the best, things about this site. It makes living with my JW wife much more bearable.